Can you teach me how to speak japanese

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Fuzzy Pickles!
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Postby Fuzzy Pickles! » 6 years ago

kscharf wrote:I don't know how accurate the fan subs are in translation, but after watching Black Jack and Astro Boy I can sometimes pick up a few spoken words.
Fan subs should not be taken as the literal translation. I've seen fan subs for the Japanese 2003 series and they were really bad (seems as the w is forgotten and names are misspelled). Even the 1980s subs on Viki has issues.
spartanx01 wrote:That's where I've learned it. My family asks me why I watch anime in Japanese. And I tell them "I'm learning it." Somethings I know, aren't used in conversations with work. Like Zangetsu which means "Cutting Moon Fang" or Tensa Zangetsu which means in full "Heavenly Chained Cutting Moon Fang." Stuff like that, but I do know a few conversational words. Like Nani meaning "what."
Watching anime to learn Japanese isn't a very good idea, especially if you're using the romanji version of Japanese (which as I said before, isn't going to help much in speaking or even understanding Japanese). I would honestly say that reading mangas would be a better idea to practice Japanese because at least you're able to see hiragana, katanaka and kanji in written form (making some of our favorite Tezuka series :) ).
Satus wrote:Hello all.

I have been studying Japanese on and off for a while. But most of the resources I use require being able to read at least hiragana and katakana.
I've been using Tae Kim's guide to learn Hiragana and Katanaka. Would you have to be able to translate Hiragana and Katanaka or just be able to distinguish between different characters and how they sound?

Meaning that I know what these characters are (and more)?












One thing I'm liking about Japanese is that there's an entire set of characters to master and learning an entirely new set of characters is what makes me more interested in this language than say Spanish (the only reason why I'm going to be taking classes next year is because its beneficial towards finding a job, though a third language always helps).
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Postby Satus » 6 years ago

"astarisborn94" wrote:Fan subs should not be taken as the literal translation. I've seen fan subs for the Japanese 2003 series and they were really bad (seems as the w is forgotten and names are misspelled). Even the 1980s subs on Viki has issues.

I don't think the Viki translators of the 1980s series double checked their translations much. :lol: Seeing as ニョーカ(Nyoka)'s name was translated as Ryoka, even though the name is present on TezukaOsamu.net and Omega Factor's official site.

"astarisborn94" wrote:I've been using Tae Kim's guide to learn Hiragana and Katanaka. Would you have to be able to translate Hiragana and Katanaka or just be able to distinguish between different characters and how they sound?

Meaning that I know what these characters are (and more)?
あ, い, う, え, お, か, き, く, け, こ

Yes, if you know how to read them you'll be fine with all the stuff I linked. :) So you'd know シ is shi and りょ is ryo, etc. A lot of these resources try to make you know those two character scripts because, as you say, romaji is not good. They like you to get away from romaji as fast as possible. It's best to learn the hiragana and pronunciation at the same time, especially when it comes to the r sound. It helps the correct noise stick correctly if you have an all new symbol to associate it with, at least that's how it is for me.

Speaking of Tae Kim, I am trusting you already know a lot of people very often recommend Tae Kim's site as a great resource for learning Japanese grammar in particular?

"astarisborn94" wrote:One thing I'm liking about Japanese is that there's an entire set of characters to master and learning an entirely new set of characters is what makes me more interested in this language than say Spanish (the only reason why I'm going to be taking classes next year is because its beneficial towards finding a job, though a third language always helps).

This is a good thing to like. I wish I had that liking for kanji, but it's a pain to hand-write. :lol: But it is fun to type up. Unfortunately I have to learn them because my primary interest in Japanese is in books (novels and poetry). Of course I obviously like Japanese comics too.

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Postby Tetsuwan Penguin » 6 years ago

Two examples of translations so bad that even a NON Japanese speaker should spot it (I think it was done by a non ENGLISH speaker!) were in the 1983 Astro Boy where Mustachio was called "Mr. Beard". Also in the "Faceless robot" episode they said he was looking for his "Neck" when it was his head. Also I keep seeing some phrase translated ass "for sure", I don't know what they really meant there (for certain?, certainly?)
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Postby Fuzzy Pickles! » 6 years ago

"Satus" wrote:I don't think the Viki translators of the 1980s series double checked their translations much. :lol: Seeing as ニョーカ(Nyoka)'s name was translated as Ryoka, even though the name is present on TezukaOsamu.net and Omega Factor's official site.
There's also a few cases in the series where Atom shouts out "Dangerous!" in scenes that should have more complex dialogue. All it does is prove lack of knowledge within the translator or at least lazy translation.

"Satus" wrote:Yes, if you know how to read them you'll be fine with all the stuff I linked. :) So you'd know シ is shi and りょ is ryo, etc. A lot of these resources try to make you know those two character scripts because, as you say, romaji is not good. They like you to get away from romaji as fast as possible. It's best to learn the hiragana and pronunciation at the same time, especially when it comes to the r sound. It helps the correct noise stick correctly if you have an all new symbol to associate it with, at least that's how it is for me.

Speaking of Tae Kim, I am trusting you already know a lot of people very often recommend Tae Kim's site as a great resource for learning Japanese grammar in particular?
I was initially surprised when you used シ instead of し, but then I figured out that you were using シ for katanaka and I was thinking of し for hiragana.

Pronouncing the r words is a pain. It's supposed to be a mixture of r, d and l, which is confusing (though why wouldn't it to English speaker?). I've been trying to look at the video, but it hasn't helped much (yet). I tried a lighter d sound, but it doesn't seem accurate. Also, I've noticed that つ is different from す. I'm assuming that つ is supposed to sound like a longer す.

Tae Kim I have heard very good things from. I downloaded his iPad app back in August, but couldn't get myself into Japanese. Its only now that I'm really getting into it.

"Satus" wrote:This is a good thing to like. I wish I had that liking for kanji, but it's a pain to hand-write. :lol: But it is fun to type up. Unfortunately I have to learn them because my primary interest in Japanese is in books (novels and poetry). Of course I obviously like Japanese comics too.
Yeah, writing in Japanese extensively like I did today (if only for practicing hiragana) made my hands hurt. That said, its worth it as I'm beginning to remember hiragana texts (already got through the vowels, k and s consonants, but will continue to practicing memorizing them so they stick).

How long have you studied Japanese for? Getting the rough idea that it'll take me 5-10 years to master the language.

あいうおえかきくけこさしすせそ
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Postby Satus » 6 years ago

"kscharf" wrote:Two examples of translations so bad that even a NON Japanese speaker should spot it (I think it was done by a non ENGLISH speaker!) were in the 1983 Astro Boy where Mustachio was called "Mr. Beard". Also in the "Faceless robot" episode they said he was looking for his "Neck" when it was his head. Also I keep seeing some phrase translated ass "for sure", I don't know what they really meant there (for certain?, certainly?)


Mr. Beard! :lol: What a funny name. I don't remember how Higeoyaji is spelled in Japanese, but the "hige" part has a little problem. Even so, context makes it obvious he has a mustache. :unsure: The neck one has me totally lost.

"astarisborn94" wrote:There's also a few cases in the series where Atom shouts out "Dangerous!" in scenes that should have more complex dialogue. All it does is prove lack of knowledge within the translator or at least lazy translation.

Well, Viki does remind one of the translators' equivalent of Wikipedia, so I am not terribly surprised. However now I am picturing Atom shouting "yabai" a great amount. :lol:

"astarisborn94" wrote:I was initially surprised when you used シ instead of し, but then I figured out that you were using シ for katanaka and I was thinking of し for hiragana.

The confusion gets worse with katakana: シ (shi), ツ (tsu), ソ (so), ン (n). But there's a trick I learned from Meguro Language Center, you can find it on pages 15 and 19 of their hiragana and katakana work sheets. I printed these out a long time ago, they worked really well for me when I filled in one or two sheets a day.

I also had a deck of cards which I made that had hiragana on the front and romaji on the back. I'd have the hiragana face up, guessing the reading, then flipped that card over, I forced myself to cycle the entire deck until I got all of them right that day. I kept doing this everyday until I learned them all with instant recall, I even shuffled the deck so the order was different every time. I never made a katakana deck for some reason? I learned all the katakana from MLC.

"astarisborn94" wrote:Pronouncing the r words is a pain. It's supposed to be a mixture of r, d and l, which is confusing (though why wouldn't it to English speaker?). I've been trying to look at the video, but it hasn't helped much (yet). I tried a lighter d sound, but it doesn't seem accurate. Also, I've noticed that つ is different from す. I'm assuming that つ is supposed to sound like a longer す.

I hope you get the hang of the Rs, they're quite awkward at first. Tsu gave me even more trouble than the Rs, personally. One of my friends taught me to practice by saying things like "bolts-oo" or "parents-oo". Maybe try that? つ is pretty much す with a t sound in front of it, it's a bit weird.

"astarisborn94" wrote:How long have you studied Japanese for? Getting the rough idea that it'll take me 5-10 years to master the language.

I first started trying to learn nearly a decade ago, but like you I had a hard time sticking to it, I never really got anywhere for a very long time. I think I started taking it more seriously in 2011? But I am still more laid-back than truly serious learners whom study everyday, I spent most of that time drilling vocabulary words and did not focus too much on grammar. Starting a blog was the big motivator for a while, but I got bored when I realised I didn't really have much to write about. There's only so many versions of 絵を描きました("I drew a picture") I can write about. :lol:

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Postby Fuzzy Pickles! » 6 years ago

"Satus" wrote:Mr. Beard! :lol: What a funny name. I don't remember how Higeoyaji is spelled in Japanese, but the "hige" part has a little problem. Even so, context makes it obvious he has a mustache. :unsure: The neck one has me totally lost.
I always found it awkward that the English version of that episode mentioned neck instead of head. I mean, for a robot, wouldn't the head be what they wanted and not the neck?
"Satus" wrote:The confusion gets worse with katakana: シ (shi), ツ (tsu), ソ (so), ン (n). But there's a trick I learned from Meguro Language Center, you can find it on pages 15 and 19 of their hiragana and katakana work sheets. I printed these out a long time ago, they worked really well for me when I filled in one or two sheets a day.
Currently, I'm working on the basic hiragana worksheet from Tim Kae's guide. It contains the alphabet, but lacks three letter words such as りょ (ryo) in it. After I complete the consonants for a word (just finished my session for the consonants of t, which are た,ち,つ,て and と ;) , I test myself by writing it out to without cheating to see whenever or not I can remember the hiragana for the sound. If I don't remember without looking at even one, I look over it briefly and test myself again. After I pass, I then test to see if I remember the previous hiragana letters along with the ones I recently learned and if I pass that, I move on to the next consonants.

I know very little katanaka at the moment (the only one I immediately recall is ワ ;) , but I'll be making sure to learn the differences because the fact that some of them look so similar calls for it (and of course competent writing).
"Satus" wrote:I also had a deck of cards which I made that had hiragana on the front and romaji on the back. I'd have the hiragana face up, guessing the reading, then flipped that card over, I forced myself to cycle the entire deck until I got all of them right that day. I kept doing this everyday until I learned them all with instant recall, I even shuffled the deck so the order was different every time. I never made a katakana deck for some reason? I learned all the katakana from MLC.
I'll think about doing that once I learn all of the hiragana (along with the muddied sound and combinations of hiragana letters), then do another one for katakana and then for both together. And then there's kanji to know but I'll ask more on how to understand it once I master hiragana and katakana (and try to figure out when they're supposed to be used along with kanji).
"Satus" wrote:I hope you get the hang of the Rs, they're quite awkward at first. Tsu gave me even more trouble than the Rs, personally. One of my friends taught me to practice by saying things like "bolts-oo" or "parents-oo". Maybe try that? つ is pretty much す with a t sound in front of it, it's a bit weird.
I find つ to be easier to get the hang of if you ask me. One is that unlike the r consonants, つ is basically す with t in the front. Which reminds me of tsunami. What I did was take the 'tsu' part and sound out the first part. It comes out as a slight hiss of the t before I use the s part as well.

I'll look at your advice in regards to the r consonants and see where that goes.
"Satus" wrote:I first started trying to learn nearly a decade ago, but like you I had a hard time sticking to it, I never really got anywhere for a very long time. I think I started taking it more seriously in 2011? But I am still more laid-back than truly serious learners whom study everyday, I spent most of that time drilling vocabulary words and did not focus too much on grammar. Starting a blog was the big motivator for a while, but I got bored when I realised I didn't really have much to write about. There's only so many versions of 絵を描きました("I drew a picture") I can write about. :lol:
I've wanted to learn the Japanese language for a long time and for various reasons; to be able to visit Japan, immerse in its culture, possibly live there, etc. It wasn't until now that I finally got serious with learning the language.

あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてと
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Postby Satus » 6 years ago

"astarisborn94" wrote:I always found it awkward that the English version of that episode mentioned neck instead of head. I mean, for a robot, wouldn't the head be what they wanted and not the neck?

Well, Astro did run off headless in the Peligro Island episode. :p I wonder where the important stuff is? Anyway, that's for another thread.

"astarisborn94" wrote:Currently, I'm working on the basic hiragana worksheet from Tim Kae's guide. It contains the alphabet, but lacks three letter words such as りょ (ryo) in it. After I complete the consonants for a word (just finished my session for the consonants of t, which are た,ち,つ,て and と ;) , I test myself by writing it out to without cheating to see whenever or not I can remember the hiragana for the sound. If I don't remember without looking at even one, I look over it briefly and test myself again. After I pass, I then test to see if I remember the previous hiragana letters along with the ones I recently learned and if I pass that, I move on to the next consonants.

The trace sheets? Those also work well. That's nice system.

"astarisborn94" wrote:I find つ to be easier to get the hang of if you ask me. One is that unlike the r consonants, つ is basically す with t in the front. Which reminds me of tsunami. What I did was take the 'tsu' part and sound out the first part. It comes out as a slight hiss of the t before I use the s part as well.

Yes, つなみ seems to be a common example word, but it's a good example.

"astarisborn94" wrote:I've wanted to learn the Japanese language for a long time and for various reasons; to be able to visit Japan, immerse in its culture, possibly live there, etc. It wasn't until now that I finally got serious with learning the language.

がんばってください! I hope it continues to go well. I'd like to communicate in Japanese with you sometime. :)

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Postby Tetsuwan Penguin » 6 years ago

How are you guys typing the Japanese characters on the computer? There is a big difference between a GRAPHICAL rendition and a true extended ASCII TEXT rendition, the former can't be cut and pasted into a dictionary site while the later can. I think MS word has a way to enter extended characters one at a time but it is a bit of multiple mouse clicks. Then again, MS word probably has a language package for Japanese complete with a "keyboard overlay" which I'd guess requires a lot of control-shift-option sequences to fit the entire character set onto a standard keyboard layout. I don't even have a clue how to do it in Linux. (I should just Google for it).
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Postby Satus » 6 years ago

If you can see Japanese, you should be able to install the ability to type it. See here and click your OS. For Windows 7, it should be in Control Panel's Region and Language section. Once you have it enabled, you should have the ability to toggle between your native language and Japanese.

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Postby Tetsuwan Penguin » 6 years ago

"Satus" wrote:I also had a deck of cards which I made that had hiragana on the front and romaji on the back. I'd have the hiragana face up, guessing the reading, then flipped that card over, I forced myself to cycle the entire deck until I got all of them right that day. I kept doing this everyday until I learned them all with instant recall, I even shuffled the deck so the order was different every time. I never made a katakana deck for some reason? I learned all the katakana from MLC.
That is a very good method. I remember doing the same thing as a teeager when I was teaching myself the Morse code to get my ham license.


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