How much of Astor/Tobio is inside Astro?

[Thylacine 2000]

Is Astro just a lookalike, modeled after a child about which he knows nothing and who has no emotional or mental importance to him? Or does he actually have the memories and personality of the human template? Are there even two different characters involved, or has there always ever just been *one* child--one kid who now needs a full-body prosthesis to exist, but otherwise no mentally different than if he'd needed a wheelchair?

In the '60s cartoon, Astro's similarity to Astor seems to be completely superficial. I saw about 50 episodes of that series and never saw any hint that Astroboy was anything more than an A.I. robot who happened to look exactly like the dead child. No emotional continuity or awareness at all.

In the '80s NOW comic series, they several times come out and state that Astro is a "clean slate:" he may look like the dead boy but there are no mental links whatsoever.

But the 2003 show (U.S. dub) had Astro experiencing some confused and foggy flashbacks of Tobio--not enough for him to reconstruct or understand his (their?) true past. I don't know how the series finale originally explained it, since as has been discussed the dub just pretended nothing happened and made no explicit acknowledgment that *anything* important happened to Tobio at all.

Elsewhere on this site, I've seen people proclaim that Astro is Tobio reincarnated--that they are the same individual with the same mind. Is this really true, and in what source material?

Thanks for any help!

[DrFrag]

The 2003 series is the only one that implies any special link between Astro and Tobio (afaik - I haven't finished watching it).

The rest of the anime/manga are pretty clear that Tenma went crazy with grief and built a robot as a substitute for his dead son. He certainly never had any kind of memory flashbacks to do with Tobio.

[dannavy85]

I think Astro is his own individual initially programed at the same age level as poor Tobio, actually none of the 3 cartoon series really go along the lines of the manga, which explains the loss of Tenma's son and wife in seperate stories. I think Tenma believed he could start all from scratch and re-write the chapter of neglect which caused Tobio's death. Of course this was not to be.

The 2003 series is pretty deep though. Why Tenma would want to program Astro full of bad memories between Tobio and him is beyond me but it made for a wonderful 2 part episode who's Western bastardization is abhorant and insulting, to be nice.

What did Tokugawa want? He wanted his boy back and he got him back in spades. All the years of neglect, all that pent up emotional disapointment, all that rage. The relationship between Tobio and his father, though going in the same direction, had not yet reached that volcanic level of hate. Tobio was still trying to love his father despite the old man's zelotry to his life's work.

Astro wants to know who Tobio was, he cares about why he was built and what he should be and in the end he learns to be his own being and a great one at that : )

Truely Osamu Tezuka wasn't just a master of art but a master at understanding life.

[Astro Forever]

While the 80's Astro definitely hasn't any "mental link" with Tobio, I think he does have a bit of an emotional connection with him. In the Viking episode, he explains to Uran how Jump used to be Tobio's dog. For sure he wouldn't have let Uran hurt Jump anyway but he did choose to go further the "we shouldn't hurt animals" general explanation.

[jeffbert]

I am about to watch 48-50, & am a bit anxious after reading the stuff about these ending eps. Why did these dufis execs decide to put the show on Saturday mornings? Is the plural of 'dufis' 'dufises' or 'dufi'? Is 'dufis' even a word, and where did I hear it?

[fafner]

In the 2000s, Astro was built with the memories of Tobio, although they were erased and only fuzzy flashbacks occur. Towards the end, Astro learns more about his past. Clearly, at the end, Astro knows many things about Tobio, including his tragic fate. However he sees this knowledge as someone else's, and is a different person than Tobio. Only his father Tenma continues to see him as Tobio, the reason why he very rarely calls him "Astro".
In an episode at the end, Tenma calls him "Tobio", and gets a firm answer: "I am not Tobio, I am Astro!"

[Ray_the_canadian]

I think through out the entire 2003 series, Tenma was just looking for forgiveness from Tobio because Tobio pretty much told Tenma he hated him before he died. Maybe thats the reason why he built Astro and installed Tobio's memories. In the last epsiode Tenma told Astro that he failed Tobio 3 times in that exact location and it just drove Tenma mad every time he has failed. Its that feeling of neglect from Astro that makes Tenma snap and take his anger on the world, but the third time he was going to take his anger on himself.

[Astro Forever]

I'm not sure about it Ray, but it sounds like a good point. After all, when Astro told Tenma he forgave him, Tenma looks as if those were the words he needed but didn't think would come.

[Ray_the_canadian]

I could probably write a whole essay about it, but I won't go that far . There are so many possibilities why Tenma is the way he is. Its funny cause in the 49th episode when he was fishing with Astro he seemed so happy and acted like a normal father. Its funny seeing that after the bad things he has done and what his intentions are for the world. He seemed at peace until the outside world gets in his way. As for why he wants Astro to be the king of robots, maybe its some way to compensate for his life going wrong. Tenma said that Astro does not belong to O'Shay. It could be jelous rage of humans getting along better with Astro then Tenma. If Astro cannot become Tobio, he might as well use his creation to make him proud. I have no idea. Its like Tenma has two completely different personalities. The trama of losing his son triggered that other personality. All that Tenma needed was for Astro to realize what Tenma's real intention was, to be forgiven for the mistakes he has made with Tobio.

[Thylacine 2000]

Originally posted by Ray_the_canadian@Apr 16 2005, 07:26 AM
As for why he wants Astro to be the king of robots, maybe its some way to compensate for his life going wrong. Tenma said that Astro does not belong to O'Shay. It could be jelous rage of humans getting along better with Astro then Tenma. If Astro cannot become Tobio, he might as well use his creation to make him proud. I have no idea.

To Tenma, humans are weak and frail: no matter how much you love them, someday they could die in a car crash and leave you alone and heartbroken forever. Robots, on the other hand, can give all the emotional feedback of a human friend and are immortal. The company they give is better than what humans can provide, so they themselves must be better than humans.

And since robots are so great, and now his son is a robot, then of *course* his son is going to be the best robot ever! It's just like Little League Dad Syndrome.