Tenma's wife also appears in the 'once upon a time' story arc where Astro goes back in time. The story ended with the re-telling of Astro's origin and his being sold to the circus. Hamegg refuses to let Astro go back to see his dying mother. That story also ended with a bad pun dealing with 'Gone with the Wind'.In the version published in a newspaper, many details were added to the creation story, including Tenma's wife.
Thoughts about the Astro/ Tenma relationship in the 2003 series?
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Tetsuwan Penguin
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There was an episode of the manga, I think it might have been the hotdog corps, where Astro was 'poisoned' by some kind of acid and Tenma showed up to give him an antidote.
Last edited by Tetsuwan Penguin on Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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My home page
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I believe I looked at this thread before, but I just didn't have the time to reply. Now, however, I do!
To begin, it makes sense that Tenma would have much more of a role in the 2003 anime, since the whole anime is an expansion of two specific chapters in the manga, Blue Knight (1965) and Astro Boy Reborn (1966). Interestingly, the latter was the chapter that shot Atom's popularity in Japan, from which he (allegedly) never recovered. Tenma plays an instrumental role in Astro Boy Reborn, in which he uses "a specific part of Atom that is too advanced for Ochanomizu to understand" to make him into a robot who other robots will listen to without question. This can be seen as a parallel to the immense anger Tenma imbued Atom with in the Pluto manga. Anyway, Atom becomes a selfish robot who cares little for humans beyond the basic laws (and it's implied that he won't have trouble disregarding those should he choose), and storms off to the Ministry atop a gigantic robot of lesser intelligence.
In addition to this, we have to remember that, in the original manga, Tezuka was always at odds with himself in crafting Atom's stories. It seems that he would have preferred to focus on more serious plotlines, and illustrate Atom as more of a pacifist. At the same time, though, his target audience was elementary-school boys, and they wanted exciting robot fights, so the author had to compromise. He didn't seem to really know what to do with Tenma after Atom's backstory storyline, so kind of shoved him aside until it was convenient to bring him out again. Also, whether or not Tezuka tried to censor Tenma's insanity, or just wasn't very good at writing such a complex character, he introduced numerous weird (and frankly half-assed) explanations for the man's abusive tendencies. There's that one chapter where Tenma writes a letter to Atom apologizing for the way he treated him and yadda yadda--that really seems like Tezuka backpedaling and saying "Oh, no, the man was never insane, he was just upset", which is a silly retcon. Then, there's the 80's anime, which erases Tenma's insanity altogether, and just paints him as an inattentive father who conveniently loses his robot son on a cruise ship and for some reason never looks for him. The writers of the 2003 anime likely understood that Tenma had the potential to be a deeply compelling character, if they drew his controversial insanity back out of the canon and played it right.
It's interesting to see how Atom deals with Tenma. In the manga (and perhaps the 1963 series), Atom has the ability to discern whether or not a human is a good or bad person. Tenma, in Tezuka's original storyline, was a heavy drinker and emotionally/physically abusive (even though he can't actually injure Atom, the intent is still there, so it's valid) to Atom. People don't become "bad" out of thin air--monsters are created from loss and suffering and pain and all that--but Tenma was indeed a bad person. How must Atom have felt knowing, from the moment of his birth, that his father was a bad human being? That idea intrigues me, but it's got nothing to do with the 2003 series, so I'll get back on track.
It's likely that Atom does not have the ability to interpret humans' natures in the 2003 series, but he can still discern such info from regular interaction (basically the same way humans do). Atom is optimistic to a fault, but he's no fool--he is very aware whenever he is dealing with a dangerous person. He must have known from very early on that something was off about his father; while Atom, in this series, always knew he was a robot, and he had little interaction with humans outside of Tenma for a large chunk of his early life, he was built to be exactly like a human, and to effectively interact with them. It was glaringly obvious that Tenma was different from other humans, and Atom could have easily discerned that for himself based on their interactions (i.e. wondering why he and his father thought in such different terms).
But just look at how Atom dealt with Tenma in episode 49--Tenma's normal facade was cracking within a matter of hours, but little Atom handled him like a pro. Remember when Tenma scolded Atom for thinking of places outside their house (again, and again, and again...)? During the occasion with the fishing simulator, at least, Atom was intimidated for a moment, before snapping back to his happy mood and saying what Tenma wanted to hear. I'm not sure if this was calculated or just Atom being a sweetheart, as usual (I mean, I can analyze this anime to hell and back, but at the end of the day it's just a kid's show).
Tenma himself is one of the most altered characters in the anime. In the original, he was just a self-righteous genius who made a lot of bad decisions and finally snapped under his misery once his son died. This Tenma is much more of a "character". By that I mean, he liked playing a part in a great scheme. He acted like a mysterious puppeteer--with his twisted logic, he created a whole scenario around himself, so that he could be the theatrical mastermind. Tenma was one of those people who thinks that everyone else in the world are sheep, just following the monotony of life, whereas he knows the truth, and thus is fit to be a manipulative "leader" to all of the mindless "followers". The problem is, everyone thinks that everyone else is a sheep--Tenma wasn't any different from anyone else in that regard. He was one of those horribly narcissistic geniuses; though to be fair, when you're always smarter than your peers, so much so that no one takes you seriously because they are so far below you that they can't even fathom your genius, it's hard not to fall into an attitude of superiority. And that's exactly what Tenma did. He liked having control, and being the center of attention (however negative). It was likely a way to make up for the recognition he lacked in his career (his way of sticking it to the other scientists who disregarded his ambitions). In the anime, Tenma is always looking down at people (no, literally. Look at him. He does it like every episode), always using that cocky smile, always so proud of himself that he's one step ahead of everyone else. And when that all comes crashing down (the whole fiasco with Shadow, and then Atom refusing to obey Tenma's maniacal demands over and over), he can't handle it.
One thing I noticed about Tenma, way back during my first time watching the series, was that he couldn't choose whether he wanted Atom to rule the world, or himself. As that reality drew nearer, Tenma would say one thing one minute, and another thing the next. He may have just decided that, even if Atom does become the ruler his father groomed him to be, Tenma would still be involved with ruling the world just by being Atom's father.
Let's see... oh yes. Backtracking a bit, let's remember the episodes with Tobio. Remember that scene when Tobio asks Tenma if he loves robots more than him, and Tenma imagines Tobio as a robot? Ladies and gentleman, that is one very sick person. Tenma's lack of social skills likely has to do with his genius--as he became used to his intellect alienating him, he began to embrace it, and actively avoid human relationships. Humans are social creatures--you just can't do that. So when he got a child, Tenma was too mentally twisted to know what to do. Despite himself, he would have preferred that Tobio be a robot. This, especially in the manga, seems to be a moment in which Tenma is confronted by his own self-induced mental illness. On some deeper level, Tenma probably hates himself for being such an unhealthy person.
Alrighty, finally, the last episode. Atom deals with Tenma famously. If he couldn't before, Atom is undoubtedly 100% aware of how far gone his father is by the time of their confrontation at Plant 7. He knows that Tenma is dangerous, but he also knows that Tenma is hurt. People don't just break--they are broken. So Atom uses his mad human understanding skillz and hugs his daddy. This one move shatters everything, and Tenma succumbs to the overwhelming kindness of the son he exposed to all of his internal evil. The end!
Sorry, I was a bit rushed at the end, because I've got to go. Hopefully it's not just useless fluff. Happy reflecting!
To begin, it makes sense that Tenma would have much more of a role in the 2003 anime, since the whole anime is an expansion of two specific chapters in the manga, Blue Knight (1965) and Astro Boy Reborn (1966). Interestingly, the latter was the chapter that shot Atom's popularity in Japan, from which he (allegedly) never recovered. Tenma plays an instrumental role in Astro Boy Reborn, in which he uses "a specific part of Atom that is too advanced for Ochanomizu to understand" to make him into a robot who other robots will listen to without question. This can be seen as a parallel to the immense anger Tenma imbued Atom with in the Pluto manga. Anyway, Atom becomes a selfish robot who cares little for humans beyond the basic laws (and it's implied that he won't have trouble disregarding those should he choose), and storms off to the Ministry atop a gigantic robot of lesser intelligence.
In addition to this, we have to remember that, in the original manga, Tezuka was always at odds with himself in crafting Atom's stories. It seems that he would have preferred to focus on more serious plotlines, and illustrate Atom as more of a pacifist. At the same time, though, his target audience was elementary-school boys, and they wanted exciting robot fights, so the author had to compromise. He didn't seem to really know what to do with Tenma after Atom's backstory storyline, so kind of shoved him aside until it was convenient to bring him out again. Also, whether or not Tezuka tried to censor Tenma's insanity, or just wasn't very good at writing such a complex character, he introduced numerous weird (and frankly half-assed) explanations for the man's abusive tendencies. There's that one chapter where Tenma writes a letter to Atom apologizing for the way he treated him and yadda yadda--that really seems like Tezuka backpedaling and saying "Oh, no, the man was never insane, he was just upset", which is a silly retcon. Then, there's the 80's anime, which erases Tenma's insanity altogether, and just paints him as an inattentive father who conveniently loses his robot son on a cruise ship and for some reason never looks for him. The writers of the 2003 anime likely understood that Tenma had the potential to be a deeply compelling character, if they drew his controversial insanity back out of the canon and played it right.
It's interesting to see how Atom deals with Tenma. In the manga (and perhaps the 1963 series), Atom has the ability to discern whether or not a human is a good or bad person. Tenma, in Tezuka's original storyline, was a heavy drinker and emotionally/physically abusive (even though he can't actually injure Atom, the intent is still there, so it's valid) to Atom. People don't become "bad" out of thin air--monsters are created from loss and suffering and pain and all that--but Tenma was indeed a bad person. How must Atom have felt knowing, from the moment of his birth, that his father was a bad human being? That idea intrigues me, but it's got nothing to do with the 2003 series, so I'll get back on track.
It's likely that Atom does not have the ability to interpret humans' natures in the 2003 series, but he can still discern such info from regular interaction (basically the same way humans do). Atom is optimistic to a fault, but he's no fool--he is very aware whenever he is dealing with a dangerous person. He must have known from very early on that something was off about his father; while Atom, in this series, always knew he was a robot, and he had little interaction with humans outside of Tenma for a large chunk of his early life, he was built to be exactly like a human, and to effectively interact with them. It was glaringly obvious that Tenma was different from other humans, and Atom could have easily discerned that for himself based on their interactions (i.e. wondering why he and his father thought in such different terms).
But just look at how Atom dealt with Tenma in episode 49--Tenma's normal facade was cracking within a matter of hours, but little Atom handled him like a pro. Remember when Tenma scolded Atom for thinking of places outside their house (again, and again, and again...)? During the occasion with the fishing simulator, at least, Atom was intimidated for a moment, before snapping back to his happy mood and saying what Tenma wanted to hear. I'm not sure if this was calculated or just Atom being a sweetheart, as usual (I mean, I can analyze this anime to hell and back, but at the end of the day it's just a kid's show).
Tenma himself is one of the most altered characters in the anime. In the original, he was just a self-righteous genius who made a lot of bad decisions and finally snapped under his misery once his son died. This Tenma is much more of a "character". By that I mean, he liked playing a part in a great scheme. He acted like a mysterious puppeteer--with his twisted logic, he created a whole scenario around himself, so that he could be the theatrical mastermind. Tenma was one of those people who thinks that everyone else in the world are sheep, just following the monotony of life, whereas he knows the truth, and thus is fit to be a manipulative "leader" to all of the mindless "followers". The problem is, everyone thinks that everyone else is a sheep--Tenma wasn't any different from anyone else in that regard. He was one of those horribly narcissistic geniuses; though to be fair, when you're always smarter than your peers, so much so that no one takes you seriously because they are so far below you that they can't even fathom your genius, it's hard not to fall into an attitude of superiority. And that's exactly what Tenma did. He liked having control, and being the center of attention (however negative). It was likely a way to make up for the recognition he lacked in his career (his way of sticking it to the other scientists who disregarded his ambitions). In the anime, Tenma is always looking down at people (no, literally. Look at him. He does it like every episode), always using that cocky smile, always so proud of himself that he's one step ahead of everyone else. And when that all comes crashing down (the whole fiasco with Shadow, and then Atom refusing to obey Tenma's maniacal demands over and over), he can't handle it.
One thing I noticed about Tenma, way back during my first time watching the series, was that he couldn't choose whether he wanted Atom to rule the world, or himself. As that reality drew nearer, Tenma would say one thing one minute, and another thing the next. He may have just decided that, even if Atom does become the ruler his father groomed him to be, Tenma would still be involved with ruling the world just by being Atom's father.
Let's see... oh yes. Backtracking a bit, let's remember the episodes with Tobio. Remember that scene when Tobio asks Tenma if he loves robots more than him, and Tenma imagines Tobio as a robot? Ladies and gentleman, that is one very sick person. Tenma's lack of social skills likely has to do with his genius--as he became used to his intellect alienating him, he began to embrace it, and actively avoid human relationships. Humans are social creatures--you just can't do that. So when he got a child, Tenma was too mentally twisted to know what to do. Despite himself, he would have preferred that Tobio be a robot. This, especially in the manga, seems to be a moment in which Tenma is confronted by his own self-induced mental illness. On some deeper level, Tenma probably hates himself for being such an unhealthy person.
Alrighty, finally, the last episode. Atom deals with Tenma famously. If he couldn't before, Atom is undoubtedly 100% aware of how far gone his father is by the time of their confrontation at Plant 7. He knows that Tenma is dangerous, but he also knows that Tenma is hurt. People don't just break--they are broken. So Atom uses his mad human understanding skillz and hugs his daddy. This one move shatters everything, and Tenma succumbs to the overwhelming kindness of the son he exposed to all of his internal evil. The end!
Sorry, I was a bit rushed at the end, because I've got to go. Hopefully it's not just useless fluff. Happy reflecting!
-
Tetsuwan Penguin
- Robot Revolutionary
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- Joined: 11 years ago
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Wow! Great psycho-analysis! (are you in training to be a doctor?)
I think Tezuka's problem with Tenma was that while he needed a way to create Astro (why else would you create a robot in the form of a child?), once Astro existed there wasn't any need for Tenma. I suppose he could have modified the cannon so that Tenma and his wife would raise Astro as their son, and the boy would still be the super-hero that he was, with Tenma running the Ministry. That of course, would have eliminated the need for Ochanomizu. Also, having a father that abandons him does provide Astro with a problem he needs to get over, something that becomes the core of his being. He'd be a much more boring character without that.
I think Tezuka's problem with Tenma was that while he needed a way to create Astro (why else would you create a robot in the form of a child?), once Astro existed there wasn't any need for Tenma. I suppose he could have modified the cannon so that Tenma and his wife would raise Astro as their son, and the boy would still be the super-hero that he was, with Tenma running the Ministry. That of course, would have eliminated the need for Ochanomizu. Also, having a father that abandons him does provide Astro with a problem he needs to get over, something that becomes the core of his being. He'd be a much more boring character without that.
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I'm on Fanfiction.net as Tetsuwan Penguin. Please check out some of the other stories I've written!
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4672860/Tetsuwan-Penguin
I can also be found on Deviant Art http://tetsuwanpenguin.deviantart.com/
My home page
http://scharkalvin.weebly.com/about-me.html
I'm on Fanfiction.net as Tetsuwan Penguin. Please check out some of the other stories I've written! https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4672860/Tetsuwan-Penguin
I can also be found on Deviant Art http://tetsuwanpenguin.deviantart.com/
My home page
http://scharkalvin.weebly.com/about-me.html
SuwaHana, I think your dissection of Tenma is one of the best I've ever seen, in years. I'm not even exaggerating.
I was actually talking about Tenma with a friend the other night when she finished the 2003 series. I've spent a lot of time trying to analyze the various kinks in his personality, and I think at some point, I realized 2003!Tenma had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - this manifesting in perfectionism and his repulsion in human functions and traits. I pointed out how Astro doesn't have human things like loose hair, fingernails, or a need to eat/dispose of waste. Tenma's disgust with human "weaknesses" like this must have lead to Astro's streamlined, between-species design.
The fact that he kept neglecting Tobio in this series, and buying him off with gifts or toys makes me think that he's one of those people who grew up with their parents showing any love through material goods. I knew a lady whose parents were born in China and did this to her - for them, it was just the norm for them as a kid, but of course a third generation kid would be unsatisfied with the neglect. I think I also decided Tenma had to be an only child from an extremely wealthy family.
I was actually talking about Tenma with a friend the other night when she finished the 2003 series. I've spent a lot of time trying to analyze the various kinks in his personality, and I think at some point, I realized 2003!Tenma had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder - this manifesting in perfectionism and his repulsion in human functions and traits. I pointed out how Astro doesn't have human things like loose hair, fingernails, or a need to eat/dispose of waste. Tenma's disgust with human "weaknesses" like this must have lead to Astro's streamlined, between-species design.
The fact that he kept neglecting Tobio in this series, and buying him off with gifts or toys makes me think that he's one of those people who grew up with their parents showing any love through material goods. I knew a lady whose parents were born in China and did this to her - for them, it was just the norm for them as a kid, but of course a third generation kid would be unsatisfied with the neglect. I think I also decided Tenma had to be an only child from an extremely wealthy family.
Dr. Tenma lover and aficionado since 2006!
Now featuring the Sad Old Dad Squad (The S.O.D.S.)
Interesting thoughts, SuwaHana, though as I understand it, the program was made for family entertainment, not just kids. Anyway, if I can summarize your argument as I interpret it, Tenma prefers robots to humans because he can control them; at least he thinks so. Humans have minds & wills of their own. Tobio died because he had his own ideas, very much different from his papa's. If he had not become upset about papa scrapping the obsolete robot, he would have lived.
Thus, Tenma may blame Tobio's death on his unwillingness to accept papa's ways. His seeing the machine as a friend rather than a mere machine, one that can be discarded unceremoniously & replaced with a newer version. But that is the child's way of seeing things, the old may be obsolete, but it is familiar. pets & robots are people too.
Thus, Tenma may blame Tobio's death on his unwillingness to accept papa's ways. His seeing the machine as a friend rather than a mere machine, one that can be discarded unceremoniously & replaced with a newer version. But that is the child's way of seeing things, the old may be obsolete, but it is familiar. pets & robots are people too.
Ah, Tenma talk. I wish I could be a robot for him... 
I mean, he is absolutely crazy, but I have always loved the "evil- villain" types. Although he has problems I don't believe he is really a BAD person (obviously blind I am). He went through a lot with his son, and who knows with Hoshie. Not to mention his hatred for humanity (which I can understand). He is the type to wear sunglasses at night, that *******. He is kinda full of himself. I don't think he had many friends growing up since he build a robot bear to be his friend so young. As much as I already know all this, I try not to think about Astro/ Tenma too often because I should be trying to avoid more depression. I went to a funeral a while ago and didn't cry until the drive home because I was reading the manga at the part where Tobio died and Tenma starts crying, and I know Astro wants to as well. I won't hide it any more. Their relationship makes me so sad and a am proud to love Astro Boy this much!
"Don't die father" 
I mean, he is absolutely crazy, but I have always loved the "evil- villain" types. Although he has problems I don't believe he is really a BAD person (obviously blind I am). He went through a lot with his son, and who knows with Hoshie. Not to mention his hatred for humanity (which I can understand). He is the type to wear sunglasses at night, that *******. He is kinda full of himself. I don't think he had many friends growing up since he build a robot bear to be his friend so young. As much as I already know all this, I try not to think about Astro/ Tenma too often because I should be trying to avoid more depression. I went to a funeral a while ago and didn't cry until the drive home because I was reading the manga at the part where Tobio died and Tenma starts crying, and I know Astro wants to as well. I won't hide it any more. Their relationship makes me so sad and a am proud to love Astro Boy this much!
"Don't die father" 
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